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Where have all the Good Guys gone?
May. 4th, 2008 09:39 amHad a glorious dinner out with ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
china_shop and Mr China last night, so glorious in fact that I had to *cliche alert* undo my belt on the way home. Thanks Mr C!
Anyway, one topic of conversation (successfully embracing fandom but sparing Mr C the slash) was the apparent absence of Good Guys (capital G) from our screens. For our purposes, C defined Good Guy (capital G) as Clark Kent. Which gave me a momentary paroxysm as I blurted "Clark Kent = NOT!Good Guy" and she thought I was losing my religion, and then I clicked and realised she meant Old Skool not Smallville and we were back on the same page. Naturally Fraser from Due South was also a shoe-in. For reasons that don't need exploring at this juncture.
Stargate: Atlantis
Rejected without discussion on the basis of Monday's fangirl dinner (withmissiedith and aworldinside) where much was made of Mengele!science and the failure of individual responsibility. And even John's "I'll do anything for my team" --> too bad for not!my team.
Doctor Who
I made a half-hearted pitch for the Doctor but was hamstrung by the imperative not to spoil Mr C for new!Who, and C's lack of old skool. Wot? The Last of the Time Lords is actually the last of...? Heh. [Otoh, on Monday we had the hilarious moment where I mentioned the Time Lords exiling the Doctor to Earth, and the others were all, Huh, I thought there weren't any left... To which, heeeeeeeeeeee! Ah, the glory of forty years of canon, which confuses all, except People Like Me.] C rightly pointed out Bad Things the Doctor Has Done, which I thought were largely vitiated by The Worst Thing the Doctor Ever Did which is also paradoxically the Best Thing in the sense of being a giant Supreme Sacrifice. Boy, lots of caps here. I'm trying to be vague and non-spoilery. Ish. I may make a separate post on this since it's dear to my heart. Cut.
BSG
Moral compromise = watchword --> mentioned and dismissed in less than a sentence.
Life on Mars
Sam's pretty saintly by comparison, but the Clark Kent scale doesn't let you grade on a curve. I peskily remembered the binned psych report to keep the guy in jail and Prevent a Subsequent Crime. Good Guys (capital G) frown at this. Still, at least Sam did too.
Supernatural
Sam I set on an ice floe right away because Selfish Motives Only, but I made the best case I could for Dean after sauvignon and bloody steak and apple crumble and far too much hot chocolate. It wasn't actually very good. C accepted my Saving People! motivation for Hunting Things! but parried my Supreme Sacrifice with a Supreme Selfishness card from the bottom of the deck.
Astounded by our failure, we then cast around for More Shows, and failed there too. Has the Writers' Strike crippled us? Have we just failed as fans, and not watched enough tv recently?
Mr C, of course, asked if we're just more sophisticated now, and need more sophisticated heroes. Which yeah, I take his point. Up to a point. I still like my Flawed Heroes to be Called on their Bullshit though, which I don't find you can count on these days.
Who's got a Good Guy for me? Who's watching something I should be watching? Anyone?
china_shop and Mr China last night, so glorious in fact that I had to *cliche alert* undo my belt on the way home. Thanks Mr C!Anyway, one topic of conversation (successfully embracing fandom but sparing Mr C the slash) was the apparent absence of Good Guys (capital G) from our screens. For our purposes, C defined Good Guy (capital G) as Clark Kent. Which gave me a momentary paroxysm as I blurted "Clark Kent = NOT!Good Guy" and she thought I was losing my religion, and then I clicked and realised she meant Old Skool not Smallville and we were back on the same page. Naturally Fraser from Due South was also a shoe-in. For reasons that don't need exploring at this juncture.
Stargate: Atlantis
Rejected without discussion on the basis of Monday's fangirl dinner (with
missiedith and aworldinside) where much was made of Mengele!science and the failure of individual responsibility. And even John's "I'll do anything for my team" --> too bad for not!my team. Doctor Who
I made a half-hearted pitch for the Doctor but was hamstrung by the imperative not to spoil Mr C for new!Who, and C's lack of old skool. Wot? The Last of the Time Lords is actually the last of...? Heh. [Otoh, on Monday we had the hilarious moment where I mentioned the Time Lords exiling the Doctor to Earth, and the others were all, Huh, I thought there weren't any left... To which, heeeeeeeeeeee! Ah, the glory of forty years of canon, which confuses all, except People Like Me.] C rightly pointed out Bad Things the Doctor Has Done, which I thought were largely vitiated by The Worst Thing the Doctor Ever Did which is also paradoxically the Best Thing in the sense of being a giant Supreme Sacrifice. Boy, lots of caps here. I'm trying to be vague and non-spoilery. Ish. I may make a separate post on this since it's dear to my heart. Cut.
BSG
Moral compromise = watchword --> mentioned and dismissed in less than a sentence.
Life on Mars
Sam's pretty saintly by comparison, but the Clark Kent scale doesn't let you grade on a curve. I peskily remembered the binned psych report to keep the guy in jail and Prevent a Subsequent Crime. Good Guys (capital G) frown at this. Still, at least Sam did too.
Supernatural
Sam I set on an ice floe right away because Selfish Motives Only, but I made the best case I could for Dean after sauvignon and bloody steak and apple crumble and far too much hot chocolate. It wasn't actually very good. C accepted my Saving People! motivation for Hunting Things! but parried my Supreme Sacrifice with a Supreme Selfishness card from the bottom of the deck.
Astounded by our failure, we then cast around for More Shows, and failed there too. Has the Writers' Strike crippled us? Have we just failed as fans, and not watched enough tv recently?
Mr C, of course, asked if we're just more sophisticated now, and need more sophisticated heroes. Which yeah, I take his point. Up to a point. I still like my Flawed Heroes to be Called on their Bullshit though, which I don't find you can count on these days.
Who's got a Good Guy for me? Who's watching something I should be watching? Anyone?
