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arysteiaOkay, still haven't seen Alexander, and yes, still bitter. A friend with evident time on her hands (why, thank you so *much*, K!!!) linked me to the best/worst of various reviews and posts/comments, however. I soon discovered that that way madness lies, via the most egregious mangling of the English language I've ever seen, if not by rampant homophobia.
Anyone who knows me knows that I ship Alexander/Hephaistion past the point of reason and always have done, and possibly also that my OTP fervour extends to the point where I even dislike The Persian Boy, despite the fact that my childhood goddess wrote it. What drives me to comment today, however, is not the deluge of "This film is too fecking gay!!!" posts I've just waded through, but a couple of threads that actually have me more bemused.
Namely: "Alexander was a legendary womaniser!!!"; and "Alexander was every man's woman and every woman's man".
Ummmm... No. In a word, no. Not even. Not remotely.
This offends my classical historian's sensibilities (as opposed to my ingrained liberalism and human decency) *more* than the bigots weeping in the corner crying, "My hero wasn't gay! He wasn't!" Because it's so pathetically, ridiculously *wrong*. At least the homophobes can call the fact that there's no explicit evidence in their defence.
First and foremost, the second quote actually refers to Alcibiades, who *was* an equal opportunity lech, and was killed in the end by the brothers of a girl he'd seduced. It's not remotely applicable to Alexander. We can count the people (of either and neither gender) Alexander probably slept with on both hands. We can count the people we know for sure he slept with on *one* hand. The boy *didn't* get around.
"Sex and sleep remind me that I'm mortal".
To my mind one of the most telling quotes ever attributed to Alexander. Of all this man's obsessions, sex was the least. Love, yes. Affection, yes. Loyalty, camaraderie, hero worship, yes yes yes. He thrived on relationships. But sex? I'm not trying to make him out to be a monk, I can't imagine that he was. But I honestly believe he put the bulk of his massive drive into other things.
As for womanising...
He was married three times.
1) Roxana. Who incidentally was from Bactria/Sogdiana (the Afghanistan/Pakistan border), not Persia (Iran), despite the race war I saw threatening to break out on IMDB over the casting of an actress of colour.
We're told this was a case of love at first sight - that he caught her eye across a crowded room in true romance novel fashion. I'm sure she did catch *his* eye, but I'm also sure it had something to do with the fact that subduing Bactria/Sogdiana had given him far more grief than defeating Persia itself, and her father made a very useful ally in the region.
2) Stateira (Barsine)
Noone *ever* tries to pass this off as a romance. She was the daughter of the defeated Darius III, and a blatant dynastic match. Marrying her made Alexander the legitimate heir to the Achaemaenid dynasty, something which meant a lot to *him*, as well as to his new subjects. Roxana could not confer this legitimacy, because as far as the Persians were concerned she was a barbarian from a subject kingdom.
3) Parysatis
The daughter of Ochos, a previous Persian king (Darius came to the throne under murky circumstances), Alexander is said by some to have married her later on the same day as he married Stateira, in an effort to unite the royal houses. Still all about dynastic unity and stability.
Other than that, we have the *fictional* story (from the Alexander Romance, one of the world's first novels) of the Amazon Queen who felt that since she was the greatest female warrior in the world, only the greatest male warrior in the world was fit to impregnate her, and made a booty call for the purpose; and a couple of anecdotes about artists' models and the like.
Some claim also that he had an affair with a woman named Barsine (possible conflation with Stateira-Barsine above?), the widow of Memnon. I find it very unlikely that Alexander would behave so with the daughter of Artabazos, an eminent and aged friend he respected very much, but that may just be me. The evidence is inconclusive. [Or see the eminent Dr Jeanne below :-D]
To the contrary, we have the fact that he was legendary, even in his own day, for his behaviour toward captured women. A good example would be Stateira (senior), the wife of Darius and mother of his future wife. Acclaimed the most beautiful woman in Asia, the story goes that when he captured the Persian harem, courtiers exhorted him to exercise his droit du seigneur. At which he a) rebuked them for daring to suggest it; and b) refused to ever be in the same room with her. Instead he called on her *mother-in-law*, a proud old lady who became a very dear friend.
Dear God, what a womaniser! What a fiend!
As for the men... There's Hephaistion and... Anyone? No takers? No. Noone else is *ever* mentioned as a lover, in any source, even the most hostile.
And lastly, Bagoas. We don't know much about him at all, and I'll say even less, but he was there.
End of story.
Alexander had flaws certainly, and they're easy to encapsulate. Excessive drinking. A massive ego. A *very* bad temper. Satyromania was not one of them.
ETA: I just can't not talk about Hephaistion, even when I'm trying to make a different point. So I feel compelled to point out, in this essay on women, that he married Drypetis, the sister of Stateira, so that his and Alexander's sons could be cousins. Oh, and when Alexander went to see Sisygambis (Stateira senior's mother-in-law above), Hephaistion went too. It's then that the infamous "He is Alexander too" incident occurred.
I apologise if either of these points were featured in the film, but it sounds like it focused on Roxana, not Stateira.
Anyone who knows me knows that I ship Alexander/Hephaistion past the point of reason and always have done, and possibly also that my OTP fervour extends to the point where I even dislike The Persian Boy, despite the fact that my childhood goddess wrote it. What drives me to comment today, however, is not the deluge of "This film is too fecking gay!!!" posts I've just waded through, but a couple of threads that actually have me more bemused.
Namely: "Alexander was a legendary womaniser!!!"; and "Alexander was every man's woman and every woman's man".
Ummmm... No. In a word, no. Not even. Not remotely.
This offends my classical historian's sensibilities (as opposed to my ingrained liberalism and human decency) *more* than the bigots weeping in the corner crying, "My hero wasn't gay! He wasn't!" Because it's so pathetically, ridiculously *wrong*. At least the homophobes can call the fact that there's no explicit evidence in their defence.
First and foremost, the second quote actually refers to Alcibiades, who *was* an equal opportunity lech, and was killed in the end by the brothers of a girl he'd seduced. It's not remotely applicable to Alexander. We can count the people (of either and neither gender) Alexander probably slept with on both hands. We can count the people we know for sure he slept with on *one* hand. The boy *didn't* get around.
"Sex and sleep remind me that I'm mortal".
To my mind one of the most telling quotes ever attributed to Alexander. Of all this man's obsessions, sex was the least. Love, yes. Affection, yes. Loyalty, camaraderie, hero worship, yes yes yes. He thrived on relationships. But sex? I'm not trying to make him out to be a monk, I can't imagine that he was. But I honestly believe he put the bulk of his massive drive into other things.
As for womanising...
He was married three times.
1) Roxana. Who incidentally was from Bactria/Sogdiana (the Afghanistan/Pakistan border), not Persia (Iran), despite the race war I saw threatening to break out on IMDB over the casting of an actress of colour.
We're told this was a case of love at first sight - that he caught her eye across a crowded room in true romance novel fashion. I'm sure she did catch *his* eye, but I'm also sure it had something to do with the fact that subduing Bactria/Sogdiana had given him far more grief than defeating Persia itself, and her father made a very useful ally in the region.
2) Stateira (Barsine)
Noone *ever* tries to pass this off as a romance. She was the daughter of the defeated Darius III, and a blatant dynastic match. Marrying her made Alexander the legitimate heir to the Achaemaenid dynasty, something which meant a lot to *him*, as well as to his new subjects. Roxana could not confer this legitimacy, because as far as the Persians were concerned she was a barbarian from a subject kingdom.
3) Parysatis
The daughter of Ochos, a previous Persian king (Darius came to the throne under murky circumstances), Alexander is said by some to have married her later on the same day as he married Stateira, in an effort to unite the royal houses. Still all about dynastic unity and stability.
Other than that, we have the *fictional* story (from the Alexander Romance, one of the world's first novels) of the Amazon Queen who felt that since she was the greatest female warrior in the world, only the greatest male warrior in the world was fit to impregnate her, and made a booty call for the purpose; and a couple of anecdotes about artists' models and the like.
Some claim also that he had an affair with a woman named Barsine (possible conflation with Stateira-Barsine above?), the widow of Memnon. I find it very unlikely that Alexander would behave so with the daughter of Artabazos, an eminent and aged friend he respected very much, but that may just be me. The evidence is inconclusive. [Or see the eminent Dr Jeanne below :-D]
To the contrary, we have the fact that he was legendary, even in his own day, for his behaviour toward captured women. A good example would be Stateira (senior), the wife of Darius and mother of his future wife. Acclaimed the most beautiful woman in Asia, the story goes that when he captured the Persian harem, courtiers exhorted him to exercise his droit du seigneur. At which he a) rebuked them for daring to suggest it; and b) refused to ever be in the same room with her. Instead he called on her *mother-in-law*, a proud old lady who became a very dear friend.
Dear God, what a womaniser! What a fiend!
As for the men... There's Hephaistion and... Anyone? No takers? No. Noone else is *ever* mentioned as a lover, in any source, even the most hostile.
And lastly, Bagoas. We don't know much about him at all, and I'll say even less, but he was there.
End of story.
Alexander had flaws certainly, and they're easy to encapsulate. Excessive drinking. A massive ego. A *very* bad temper. Satyromania was not one of them.
ETA: I just can't not talk about Hephaistion, even when I'm trying to make a different point. So I feel compelled to point out, in this essay on women, that he married Drypetis, the sister of Stateira, so that his and Alexander's sons could be cousins. Oh, and when Alexander went to see Sisygambis (Stateira senior's mother-in-law above), Hephaistion went too. It's then that the infamous "He is Alexander too" incident occurred.
I apologise if either of these points were featured in the film, but it sounds like it focused on Roxana, not Stateira.
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no subject
Date: 2004-12-07 11:03 am (UTC)But it was implied that he was tough. He beats Alexander in wrestling when they're young, he hits back and hard when he's annoyed by Cleitus, I think, and we see him beeing a rough fighter, mostly in India. As for the eyeliner, most people in the movie were wearing some I guess :p
no subject
Date: 2004-12-08 02:26 am (UTC)The eyeliner was meant, I think, to demonstrate the Orientalization of certain characters.